BOU 034 – We FINALLY talk Walking Dead Finale

BOU 034 – We FINALLY talk Walking Dead Finale

Photo copyright AMC Gene Page

Dave was sick today, but if you think that meant a sedate Dave, well, then, you don’t know Dave.

The show opened up with Johnny’s announcement that he and Sean were going to write a serious horror book together, and then several other things which set Dave off on tangents, including one about his past jobs versus Sean’s.

Johnny assured Dave that he’s not looking to move in on Collective Inkwell turf, and said the difference between the book he wants to write with Sean and the ones Sean writes with Dave is that no children or animals will be in danger, unlike every single book Sean and Dave write.

Johnny assured Dave that he wasn’t looking to move in on his territory:

“Anything that will make people lose faith in humanity, that’s still you.”

Dave and Sean then argued about whether their 47North novel, Monstrous should have had more humor in it.

Johnny then finally admitted that Dave was right when it comes to watching TV with other people.

Then the guys finally talked The Walking Dead Season Finale, what they liked, and what they didn’t.

This included a lively debate on whether Carl was right in what he did in the final episode of the season.

Dave then announced a new podcast with Garrett Robinson called, A Game of Geeks, which let’s face it is Better Off Undead 2.

Watch the video here and see Dave lose it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_qZM1bMHzo&feature=plcp

Audience question: Would you have made the same choice as Carl? 

 

11 Comments

  1. In response to your question regarding Carl and the choice he made: The boy took much too long to put down his gun, he was approaching them and Carl had people to protect; I’d have shot the sumbitch too. Carl understands that you can’t take that kind of chance during a zombie apocalypse, during which the people are just as big of a threat as the zombies and the rape gangs run rampant. Shout out to Dave. Take it easy, a-holes.

    Reply
  2. While it is easy to second guess Carl after-the-fact. You must remember the circumstances: The boy that was shot, took up a weapon and came, with others, into Carl’s home for the sole purpose of killing Carl and Carl’s family. This was not a random act. This was premeditated. Carl was also tasked to “protect the group he was with” and that is just what he did.

    Reply
  3. I think that they took in the others because of knowing what the governor did to all the others, especially with Karen as an eye witness. I believe that at that point, they all realized they had a common enemy, someone who wouldn’t hesitate to kill an “enemy” or one of his own people. By the end of the episode, the parameters of “us against them” had shifted. Plus, all the people left from Woodbury were either really old or really young, so I don’t think they’d pose as big of a threat anyways.

    In regards to Carl, the kid took way too long to put down his gun, and while he portrayed being scared, I felt he was sizing Carl up, trying to decide if he should attack or surrender…as much as I don’t necessarily completely agree with what he did, I think that it was necessary in order to protect the group. That kid wasn’t there to know that the governor had turned “chaotic evil” (if you get that reference, you’re awesome), so he would still see them as a threat, and had they taken him as a prisoner, what’s to say he wouldn’t formulate a plan to escape and attack them?

    On a random tangent…seeing that there were a lot of old people they took in from Woodbury, do you think it would make sense to lock them up in cells, in case they die of old age, and turn into walkers, seeing that everyone turns when they die?

    Reply
  4. I sense a new trend: “Carl Was Right!” tee-shirts. Officially, I would wear one.

    Reply
    • I wear one of those every day.

      Reply
  5. It always cracks me up. You guys think it’s necessary to tell people there will be spoilers AS you’re starting to talk about a show or movie. I figured by now you guys would have decided if the listener is too damn stupid to figure out that you guys are going to talk about spoilers, too bad. It doesn’t take a freakin rocket scientist to figure out spoilers are comin’ down the shoot …

    Sean, I totally agree with you about the Walking Dead and why Carl killed that guy.

    Great show again guys.

    Until next time … Bathtub Girl

    Reply
  6. If someone is so easily convinced to turn on their own morals or personal convictions, how strong were those convictions to begin with? Johnny seems to be saying that people shouldn’t be held responsible for their actions if someone convinced them to do something they should have known better than to do. Sorry, I don’t buy it. Those people aligned with someone, made a choice, and unfortunately it was the more morally corrupt choice. Too bad. 🙂 I have sympathy for them, but it wouldn’t change the fact that survival in a situation like this demands decisive action even for the toughest choices. This was a situation where taking chances on the moral leanings of a man who came in willing to murder people would have been the most irresponsible of the choices available. Carl was right. Human life is precious, but as individuals, our own lives and those of the people we love are most precious. I’ve just never understood how willing some people are to risk ruining the lives of their own loved ones in favor of a total stranger. Being compassionate doesn’t have to mean being stupid, as long as you limit compassion to the situations where it makes sense. It didn’t make sense in this situation.

    Reply
    • @TLE — I wouldn’t say that these people who went into the prison CHOSE to be bad. They were convinced by the Governor that they HAD to fight or that the people in the prison were likely going to come and kill them. This is something you see leaders do throughout history — find a way to justify war and genocide by reducing humans to a faceless, heartless, evil “enemy.” You take away the enemy’s humanity, and it makes it far easier to march forces in and seize a land, kill its populace, etc… That is what the Governor was doing with all of his manipulations of his people.

      Whether the Governor was justified or not is up for debate. One could argue that in a dog-eat-dog world it’s best to be vicious. While others would question at what cost and at what price does life come? These are difficult questions which this show attempts to address quite well, I think.

      For the Governor’s group, they were fighting for their own freedom. They were convinced that an enemy was out to get them and kill their loved ones. They WERE THE HEROES in their story.

      One could easily make parallels to people who go off to fight in wars. Using the logic you lay out here, then we should also have no sympathy for soldiers (no matter what country you’re in) when they go off to fight for freedom but get hurt or killed in action. You could say, “They knew what they were getting into.” Particularly if the war being fought could be deemed a perceived threat, and not a true threat to your nation.

      I think that’s the genius of “The Walking Dead” is that it can approach such provocative questions such as when is war right, at what cost do we raise arms against another? How many innocent civilians are an acceptable loss in any war? It’s taking very interesting questions that face us today and reducing them to their cores.

      Does a nation decimate another nation’s populace, most of who have little or no choice in their leadership, or want to be at war, in order to preserve “freedom?” You can apply this question to many wars throughout history.

      All that being said, I still agree that Carl should’ve done what he did. This man was an enemy. He’d come into their territory prepared to harm them. Carl had no way to know if the guy was good and misled, or playing that card to take advantage of them. He had to go on the information he had at hand. And given that the guy was taking so damned long to put down his gun (he was probably justified in this too, as he thought of these people as the heartless enemy who would probably kill him the moment he laid down his weapon), Carl had to assume that he was formulating a plan to harm them.

      Reply
      • I agree with pretty much everything you said, and my comment above is definitely predicated on the notion that we’re all the heroes of our own stories. As heroes of our own stories, we make our choices. I suggest that when it comes to a situation like Carl’s it makes sense to remember that this is his story, and the story of his people, and that we’re supposed to sympathize with him above all others. All other things being equal, if he makes a tough choice, he’s the hero we’re rooting for, and if we’re not, then someone’s failed to truly put us into the thoughts of that character. People start shouting too loudly that they wouldn’t have done what he did and that they can’t sympathize with Carl, then the show has failed. So on that, there’s an issue.

        I’m not sure I explained myself well, because you said my logic dictated no sympathy for the enemy when I actually said I had sympathy for them. 🙂

        And in fact, from what I wrote, war is a perfect way to illustrate what I meant when I said, “Human life is precious, but as individuals, our own lives and those of the people we love are most precious. I’ve just never understood how willing some people are to risk ruining the lives of their own loved ones in favor of a total stranger. Being compassionate doesn’t have to mean being stupid, as long as you limit compassion to the situations where it makes sense. It didn’t make sense in this situation.” So why go to war and risk lives when the threat isn’t immediate and direct? I think we’re in too many wars and go to war too easily already.

        The problem with the Governor and his manipulations is that who the good guy is is completely dependent on which side you sympathize with most and whether you believe people are ultimately powerless. If people are truly powerless, then there’s no hope for humanity anyway. Corrupt governments can’t be overthrown (and hey, if you’re part of that government, there’s a good chance you believe what you’re doing is for the best of the others–that you’re the hero of that story and those bribes are necessary to get this other important thing done and it’s just a little give and take) and life is just a series of events that happen to you, not the other way around. Individuals have no power. But I don’t believe people are powerless; they just like to make easy choices.

        I guess what I’m saying is that allowing yourself to be manipulated is the first choice in a long line of choices that ultimately you do have to take responsibility for as a person. It might not be fair, but so much in life really isn’t fair and never will be. Such as: live under the current regime because it’s easier than doing anything about it. There’s less risk. Such as: listen to propaganda because it’s easier than going out and talking to people to find out the true stories behind it. Even trust is a choice and sometimes it doesn’t pay off. Trust me. 😉

        I do feel sympathy for the manipulated, but they will still face the consequences of those choices, much as this guy did with Carl. Whether it’s the consequence of living under tyranny or fighting against it, believing everything you’re told because you don’t want to know the truth or want to bother finding your own version of the truth. We live and die by our choices. Carl had a tough choice. He’d already lost a lot of people. Life is not a series of events that happen to heroes. Heroes make choices, right or wrong, for good or ill. Most people don’t. And whether most people will see those heroes as heroes or villains really depends on which side they most sympathize with. I definitely sympathized with Carl most in this instance.

        Really, your comments are so much more intelligent than mine, but I tried to respond in as coherent a fashion as I could.

        Reply
        • No, you explained yourself well. I read right the hell over the whole sympathy part! You sure you want to call my comments intelligent when I missed an entire sentence of your post?

          At any rate, well said. It seems we’re all on the same page. And if you’ve listened to the show for any length of time you know that being on the same page with me is quite a rare feat… and probably not something to be proud of 🙂

          The important thing in all of this, aside from the philosophical discussion of war and peace, is that we are right and Sean and Johnny remain wrong on Carl.

          Reply
          • Agreed. 🙂

Submit a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

CAPTCHA Image

*